[Shacs] A nod in the direction of our favoritefedora-wearingfriend...

Wed Apr 16 16:55:38 CDT 2008

Ah, you're promoting not an IDE but something that is actually useful (like
"ok, but how can I use this?") outside of Burris' simplified examples
demonstrating inheritance, etc.  Good point.
One thing that kept me and my learning style down in undergrad years was
lack of applicability: honestly, I was completely clueless of db's (and had
in fact written my own flat-file parsing perl script driven web app for a
client as an undergrad, not knowing any better) until after graduation.  I
won't say any names, but this dilbert-tie-wearing prof succeeded not in
making it seem relevant, and I zoned..  My first year "in the real world" I
quickly matched up all the basics I had somehow learned by osmosis and
excelled just fine since I finally had the complete spectrum: the
 problem/need, the understanding and tools, and the solution.  Dr Cooper was
always very good at this: he got the class to ask and ponder a question,
entertained crap-shot potential responses, then provided the proper answer.

Not being a data-spongue drone, applicability is the only way to learn, in
my book...

(but I still wouldn't do Ada..)

On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 9:12 AM, PILLING, ANDREW ALEXANDER <AAP006 at shsu.edu>
wrote:

>  You got distracted and missed the point Bronius. I've never looked at the
> IDE myself as I've grown very comfortable with Vim. What's of use in the
> package is the libraries and frameworks that you can experiment around with,
> that is if you're not content with only learning what you need to know to
> complete the lab. Now I think our Computer Science department's approach to
> focusing on the theory behind things is a great approach and I think many of
> Dr. Burris' labs do a great job of demonstrating that without too much
> clutter beyond the theory, but if the theory behind it seems to be something
> you were born knowing or rather that it just flows naturally from what you
> already do know then getting the chance to chew on something more makes the
> class a lot more rewarding.  Things change so the libraries you use can too,
> but just as there's a finite pattern to the structure of a programming
> language I think you'll find there are finite patterns to the way common
> problems are solved, and not having to waist a bunch of time writing a
> tedious subroutine you've likely already written in another language, and
> that's going to be implemented in most any professional package, allows you
> to spend more time focusing on the bigger picture of what you're doing and
> why. It also gives you time to practice those documentation skills.
>
>
>
> -Drew
>
>
>
> *From:* shacs-bounces at shsu.edu [mailto:shacs-bounces at shsu.edu] *On Behalf
> Of *Bronius Motekaitis
> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 15, 2008 10:15 PM
> *To:* SHACS
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Shacs] A nod in the direction of our
> favoritefedora-wearingfriend...
>
>
>
> well... So gnat is an ADA IDE?  I hate to be the one, but I think rich
> development environments actually clutter the learning process.  I know as a
> lab assistant for one perspective and student for another that Visual C++
> was way way overkill for that simple C++ algorithms class... we didn't use
> it for anything more than a confusing compiler, and I think that confused a
> lot of people.
>
> ADA happens to be the language Burris chooses to teach OOP in; if the
> student misses the concept, no IDE will help.
>
> The sell might work for MIS degrees, but give give a guy (or gal, Wendy,
> Samira..) a text editor and a compiler, and he (or she) can feel like a real
> champ.
>
> (I used to be all about "the perfect graphical interface" and, in fact,
> they do have their place, but I don't think it needs to be introduced early
> on.  They're great for big projects, but when we're programming motors in a
> car or astronauts in space for Burris' classes, it's a bit much.)
>
> Side note: I wrote on the bottom of one of [Dr.] Hartness' homework
> assignments that I turned in incomplete a litany of why I refused to do the
> COBOL assignment, citing, above all, the really hard to understand editor
> and compiler I was given to use.  I never learned the language, but I still
> like to make fun of it..  And if you think COBOL is cool, try System-Z...
> who ever knew it would come back to bite me like this in my current job..
>
> -bronius
>
>  On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 3:38 PM, PILLING, ANDREW ALEXANDER <
> AAP006 at shsu.edu> wrote:
>
> So about that GNAT Ada 2005 GAP Package I've been pushing Dr. Cooper and
> you to add to your repertoire as well as the course materials offered to
> students here...
> http://www.adacore.com/home/ada_answers/ada_2005
> http://www.adacore.com/home/ada_answers/resources
> http://www.adacore.com/home/academia
> http://www.adacore.com/home/academia/gap
>
> I really think you'd have a lot more success making lifelong converts to
> the Ada philosophy if y'all pursued this.
> -Drew
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: shacs-bounces at shsu.edu [mailto:shacs-bounces at shsu.edu] On Behalf
> Of David Burris
> Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 2:34 PM
> To: 'shacs at shsu.edu '
> Subject: Re: [Shacs] A nod in the direction of our favorite
> fedora-wearingfriend...
>
> Thanks John.
> Now that you mention it, we have several individuals at the project
> manager level or above who learned Ada at your Alma Mater.  I used to
> teach Ada in the summer with emphasis on its multi-tasking abilities and
>
> program coordination abilities (not this silly threading nonsense).
> They have many interesting stories to tell regarding lessons learned
> from those "other" languages.  They do not believe in "Programmer Gump"
> literature adorning the hall ways at present!  They know I would never
> be seduced by the dark, evil side of the force.
>
> Typical labs were to shot down incoming missiles mirving war heads fired
>
> by the evil war lords.  The probability of a successful kill went down
> as a function of the distance at which the missile was detected.  We
> lost a lot of valuable space explorers in attacks by the dark side.  :(
>
> But the survivors fought on to victory with many going to Lockheed, NASA
>
> support groups, and European companies.
>
> You got to love it when your right!!!
> :)  :)  :0  :)  Yea Team!!!
>
> Go Kats!!!
>
> John M. Collier wrote:
> > I'm sure most of you have already seen this, but apparently somebody
> at Lockheed Martin must have
> > studied under Burris...
> >
> >
> http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/04/15/1554234&from=rss
> >
> > Apparently Ada makes for projects that are on time, under budget, and
> secure to boot.  I saw no
> > mention of "The Great Unwashed", but maybe they're just trying to be
> polite.  If anyone sees
> > Burris dancing down the hall shouting "I told you so...", now you know
> why.  oh, and if anyone is
> > witness to the aforementioned dancing.... please post pictures to
> shacs list.
> >
> > JMC
> > _______________________________________________
> > Shacs mailing list
> > Shacs at shsu.edu
> > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/shacs
> >
>
>
> --
> David S. Burris, Ph.D., CCP, CSP
> SHSU Articulation Coordinator
> Computer Science
> Sam Houston State University 77341-2090
>
> voice: (936)294-1568
> fax:   (936)294-4312
> csc_dsb at shsu.edu
> or david.burris at shsu.edu
>
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