[Shacs] A nod in the direction of our favoritefedora-wearingfriend...

Wed Apr 16 17:03:00 CDT 2008

I had written a fair number of personal apps in PHP/MySQL before.  I would
have columns like "adjacency_list" that would be full of values like
"1,5,97,295" and require text parsing.  (see, not even first normal form)

I didn't understand what a join was.

The FIRST DAY of Dr. Burris's DB class was a just about a turning point in
my life.  I just said to myself "oh, that's what a database does" and
immediately started joining and normalizing everything.  If I had quit
school at that point, I still would have gotten my money's worth in
programming skills.

That single thing (normalization) separates DailyWTF.com code from useful,
readable, working code.  It also separates terrible programmers from
programmers who are worth their paychecks.

On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 4:55 PM, Bronius Motekaitis <
bronius.motekaitis at gmail.com> wrote:

> Ah, you're promoting not an IDE but something that is actually useful
> (like "ok, but how can I use this?") outside of Burris' simplified examples
> demonstrating inheritance, etc.  Good point.
> One thing that kept me and my learning style down in undergrad years was
> lack of applicability: honestly, I was completely clueless of db's (and had
> in fact written my own flat-file parsing perl script driven web app for a
> client as an undergrad, not knowing any better) until after graduation.  I
> won't say any names, but this dilbert-tie-wearing prof succeeded not in
> making it seem relevant, and I zoned..  My first year "in the real world" I
> quickly matched up all the basics I had somehow learned by osmosis and
> excelled just fine since I finally had the complete spectrum: the
>  problem/need, the understanding and tools, and the solution.  Dr Cooper was
> always very good at this: he got the class to ask and ponder a question,
> entertained crap-shot potential responses, then provided the proper answer.
>
>
> Not being a data-spongue drone, applicability is the only way to learn, in
> my book...
>
> (but I still wouldn't do Ada..)
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 9:12 AM, PILLING, ANDREW ALEXANDER <
> AAP006 at shsu.edu> wrote:
>
> >  You got distracted and missed the point Bronius. I've never looked at
> > the IDE myself as I've grown very comfortable with Vim. What's of use in the
> > package is the libraries and frameworks that you can experiment around with,
> > that is if you're not content with only learning what you need to know to
> > complete the lab. Now I think our Computer Science department's approach to
> > focusing on the theory behind things is a great approach and I think many of
> > Dr. Burris' labs do a great job of demonstrating that without too much
> > clutter beyond the theory, but if the theory behind it seems to be something
> > you were born knowing or rather that it just flows naturally from what you
> > already do know then getting the chance to chew on something more makes the
> > class a lot more rewarding.  Things change so the libraries you use can too,
> > but just as there's a finite pattern to the structure of a programming
> > language I think you'll find there are finite patterns to the way common
> > problems are solved, and not having to waist a bunch of time writing a
> > tedious subroutine you've likely already written in another language, and
> > that's going to be implemented in most any professional package, allows you
> > to spend more time focusing on the bigger picture of what you're doing and
> > why. It also gives you time to practice those documentation skills.
> >
> >
> >
> > -Drew
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:* shacs-bounces at shsu.edu [mailto:shacs-bounces at shsu.edu] *On
> > Behalf Of *Bronius Motekaitis
> > *Sent:* Tuesday, April 15, 2008 10:15 PM
> > *To:* SHACS
> >
> > *Subject:* Re: [Shacs] A nod in the direction of our
> > favoritefedora-wearingfriend...
> >
> >
> >
> > well... So gnat is an ADA IDE?  I hate to be the one, but I think rich
> > development environments actually clutter the learning process.  I know as a
> > lab assistant for one perspective and student for another that Visual C++
> > was way way overkill for that simple C++ algorithms class... we didn't use
> > it for anything more than a confusing compiler, and I think that confused a
> > lot of people.
> >
> > ADA happens to be the language Burris chooses to teach OOP in; if the
> > student misses the concept, no IDE will help.
> >
> > The sell might work for MIS degrees, but give give a guy (or gal, Wendy,
> > Samira..) a text editor and a compiler, and he (or she) can feel like a real
> > champ.
> >
> > (I used to be all about "the perfect graphical interface" and, in fact,
> > they do have their place, but I don't think it needs to be introduced early
> > on.  They're great for big projects, but when we're programming motors in a
> > car or astronauts in space for Burris' classes, it's a bit much.)
> >
> > Side note: I wrote on the bottom of one of [Dr.] Hartness' homework
> > assignments that I turned in incomplete a litany of why I refused to do the
> > COBOL assignment, citing, above all, the really hard to understand editor
> > and compiler I was given to use.  I never learned the language, but I still
> > like to make fun of it..  And if you think COBOL is cool, try System-Z...
> > who ever knew it would come back to bite me like this in my current job..
> >
> > -bronius
> >
> >  On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 3:38 PM, PILLING, ANDREW ALEXANDER <
> > AAP006 at shsu.edu> wrote:
> >
> > So about that GNAT Ada 2005 GAP Package I've been pushing Dr. Cooper and
> > you to add to your repertoire as well as the course materials offered to
> > students here...
> > http://www.adacore.com/home/ada_answers/ada_2005
> > http://www.adacore.com/home/ada_answers/resources
> > http://www.adacore.com/home/academia
> > http://www.adacore.com/home/academia/gap
> >
> > I really think you'd have a lot more success making lifelong converts to
> > the Ada philosophy if y'all pursued this.
> > -Drew
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: shacs-bounces at shsu.edu [mailto:shacs-bounces at shsu.edu] On Behalf
> > Of David Burris
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 2:34 PM
> > To: 'shacs at shsu.edu '
> > Subject: Re: [Shacs] A nod in the direction of our favorite
> > fedora-wearingfriend...
> >
> > Thanks John.
> > Now that you mention it, we have several individuals at the project
> > manager level or above who learned Ada at your Alma Mater.  I used to
> > teach Ada in the summer with emphasis on its multi-tasking abilities and
> >
> > program coordination abilities (not this silly threading nonsense).
> > They have many interesting stories to tell regarding lessons learned
> > from those "other" languages.  They do not believe in "Programmer Gump"
> > literature adorning the hall ways at present!  They know I would never
> > be seduced by the dark, evil side of the force.
> >
> > Typical labs were to shot down incoming missiles mirving war heads fired
> >
> > by the evil war lords.  The probability of a successful kill went down
> > as a function of the distance at which the missile was detected.  We
> > lost a lot of valuable space explorers in attacks by the dark side.  :(
> >
> > But the survivors fought on to victory with many going to Lockheed, NASA
> >
> > support groups, and European companies.
> >
> > You got to love it when your right!!!
> > :)  :)  :0  :)  Yea Team!!!
> >
> > Go Kats!!!
> >
> > John M. Collier wrote:
> > > I'm sure most of you have already seen this, but apparently somebody
> > at Lockheed Martin must have
> > > studied under Burris...
> > >
> > >
> > http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/04/15/1554234&from=rss
> > >
> > > Apparently Ada makes for projects that are on time, under budget, and
> > secure to boot.  I saw no
> > > mention of "The Great Unwashed", but maybe they're just trying to be
> > polite.  If anyone sees
> > > Burris dancing down the hall shouting "I told you so...", now you know
> > why.  oh, and if anyone is
> > > witness to the aforementioned dancing.... please post pictures to
> > shacs list.
> > >
> > > JMC
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Shacs mailing list
> > > Shacs at shsu.edu
> > > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/shacs
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > David S. Burris, Ph.D., CCP, CSP
> > SHSU Articulation Coordinator
> > Computer Science
> > Sam Houston State University 77341-2090
> >
> > voice: (936)294-1568
> > fax:   (936)294-4312
> > csc_dsb at shsu.edu
> > or david.burris at shsu.edu
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
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> >
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