[Shacs] COBOL on a reputable, "modern" journal

Fri Sep 19 19:24:48 CDT 2008

Hartness' reply didn't make it the list..

-----Original Message-----
From: Hartness, Ken <CSC_KTH at SHSU.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 8:34 AM
To: bronius motekaitis <bronius.motekaitis at gmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Shacs] COBOL on a reputable, "modern" journal

Dijkstra preferred to hand-write his research papers.  Didn't like using a computer, I guess.  One of his objections to COBOL was it was created before a strong theoretical foundation for designing programming languages existed (mainly, it has a GO TO command that is frequently used by people who were trained to program without getting a CS degree; he absolutely hated programmers jumping about in their programs).  Knuth, a rival, was so upset by his attacks on "practical" programming languages that he invented an entire application for embedding source code in a document and called it "literate programming" just to mock Dijkstra's "structured programming."

Anyway, bottom line is that COBOL is a useful language for certain tasks and, unless you'd like to volunteer to rewrite millions of lines of COBOL into Perl, it's more economical to take that code, plug it into a compiler that runs on a PC and generates Java byte code or works with Visual Studio .NET, and wrap it in a GUI interface or a web service (just because the language is old doesn't mean it's STILL only programmed on punched cards for an IBM mainframe; as I get older, I am more offended by the assumption that anything old is useless).

I confess, if given a choice between a programming job in COBOL and an equivalent programming job using C++ or Ada, I would prefer the sort of work I'd be doing with C++ or Ada.  However, it wasn't too long ago that C++, PHP, etc., jobs disappeared temporarily while jobs requiring COBOL skills continued to be available.  I recall there was a position here in Huntsville that they were having difficulty filling.  Laugh while you can, but your non-COBOL jobs are all DOOMED!
--
Ken T. N. Hartness, Ph.D.
Computer Science Undergraduate Advisor
Sam Houston State University
________________________________________
From: shacs-bounces at shsu.edu [shacs-bounces at shsu.edu] On Behalf Of bronius motekaitis [bronius.motekaitis at gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 8:56 PM
To: Bronius Motekaitis; Sean Duckett
Cc: SHACS; Burris, David
Subject: RE: [Shacs] COBOL on a reputable, "modern" journal

Quote from the article:
Dijkstra famously said, "the use of cobol cripples the mind; its teaching should, therefore, be regarded as a criminal offense."

________________________________
From: Bronius Motekaitis <bronius.motekaitis at gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 8:29 PM
To: Sean Duckett <sduckett at shsu.edu>
Cc: Burris, David <CSC_DSB at shsu.edu>; SHACS <shacs at shsu.edu>
Subject: Re: [Shacs] COBOL on a reputable, "modern" journal

Haw!
Pulling the analogy back to CS.. If one were ever stranded on an island with a puny PC, he'll be up and running faster with a USB-contained environment than the mammoths that COBOL once required.  .. that is, if the ancient PC on-hand has USB support.

hmm.. by "usb" I mean "usb pen drive" of course.  Funny how the interface has become the medium..

On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 7:53 PM, Sean Duckett <sduckett at shsu.edu<mailto:sduckett at shsu.edu>> wrote:
For Homo sapiens, it's been hard for neolithic toolsmiths.
Flintknapping has slipped from 83% of all tools crafted worldwide to a
miniscule 0.04%, with the tradition maintained by eye surgeons (obsidian
blades damage the retina far less than the finest steel),
anthropologists, and the keepers of tribal history.  I have yet to
require flintknapping, though should I ever be stranded for more than a
week in a remote, flintknapping would definately be on my to-do list.

--smd.

* Burris, David <CSC_DSB at shsu.edu<mailto:CSC_DSB at shsu.edu>> [2008-09-16 18:47:53 -0500]:

> The last few years have been hard for COBOL.  It has slipped from 78% of all program written world wide in all languages to a paltry 70%.  Bronis has not yet required COBOL so you may not need it either.  On campus, student programming jobs generally require COBOL or that you be on drugs (PHP).
>
> Dr. B
>
> From: shacs-bounces at shsu.edu<mailto:shacs-bounces at shsu.edu> [mailto:shacs-bounces at shsu.edu<mailto:shacs-bounces at shsu.edu>] On Behalf Of Bronius Motekaitis
> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 10:52 PM
> To: SHACS
> Subject: [Shacs] COBOL on a reputable, modern journal
>
> Dr Burris-
>
> [cid:image001.jpg at 01C9182C.B6D9E250]<http://www.flickr.com/photos/foryou/2861741130/>
>
> Did you sneak into the press room for a little prank here?
>
> (I haven't yet read the article, but thought you'd appreciate the cover caption: "Is your next language COBOL?")
>
> -bronius
>

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> Shacs at shsu.edu<mailto:Shacs at shsu.edu>
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--smd.

"It is by the fortune of God that, in this country, we have three
 benefits: freedom of speech, freedom of thought, and the wisdom never
 to use either."
                -- Mark Twain